The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. Update. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. Rattling and lack of update to the battery monitoring is a no go for me, I would just upgrade the battery to the new 620s if i could fit it. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. Some say it's unreliable with a high risk of getting bricked. Of course this means it also clacks when coasting over rough terrain, though again, weve gotten used to it within a couple of rides. This speed may be enough, but some people may find it very frustrating because from 25 km/h they have to make a gigantic effort to follow their teammates since the assistance is cut off or simply because they want to go faster. I've already posted this on the Commencal Meta SX Power thread, but wondered if other bikes with the Shimano EP8 motor and battery have seen a similar problem. Did some rides on a scott e-genius 920(2020) and my biggest one I did was a 115 km with 2000 meters of ascent ,19 km average speed,all in the eco mode and riding some rocky terrain with some tarmac ,fire roads ,very mixed terrain ,and I did got impressed with the power and the range ,didnt got me so tired on the legs its most a cardio ,but dont put more power on them and no more battery capacity,cause it wil make them almost a dirt bike :-((. But to give you some numbers, weve consistently achieved around 1,500m of climbing during our 30-50km test rides. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! Along with the EP8s magnesium casting, heat sinks and polished logos, it affords a classy look not an easy feat for an e-MTB. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Additionally, Shimano produces a smaller and lighter 504Wh option, which is also cheaper and helps to bring the complete bike price down see the sub-$8K Polygon Mt Bromo N8 for example. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. In a closed Facebook group called Shimano EP8 Owners, there are also reports of EP8 spindle failures. - Low-drag performance This is due to the internal clutch mechanism, which allows the motor to disconnect from the cranks when not in use, thereby decreasing drag and resistance. As expected, the new Shimano EP8 motor gets a hefty boost in power, with a claimed maximum torque output of 85 Nm. As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. Once again still want to know; is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen? e*thirteen is one of the biggest OEM suppliers of cranks on electric mountain bikes. Chuckle. That's it, no recall, but I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. However, we couldnt get the display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and were inclined to believe that claim. To replicate field failures, we had to look outside of the required ISO and EN testing requirements as those tests were passed successfully. The YT Decoy also utilises its own 520Wh battery and the the Orbea Rise is built around a smaller 360Wh battery. only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. Now, we're not going to be working on the actual. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary. What is Shimanos take on e*thirteens metallurgic analysis findings? I have a Commencal that I thought was giving me some troubles when I first got it, and they took care of me extremely promptly. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. Didn't think I'd ever see that. Does Shimano know why the spindles are snapping? What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . In comparison, Shimano motors can be paired with third party batteries, and that opens up greater flexibility for bike designers (see the Orbea Rise and Pivot Shuttle for example). What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. And we certainly wouldnt be upset if Shimano could quieten down the clacking noise. At 52+ lbs, you're going to be using that motor every pedal stroke. For the type of riding and trails I do, battery power is not an issue, in fact would look at a smaller battery and weight savings on my next rig. e*thirteen recommends inspecting Shimano EP8 motor spindles to ensure no cracks are present before riding any EP8 equipped bike again and in doing so have provided a step by step process for doing this with images and instructions below. Hopefully this option will open up to non-Garmin users in the future. Under this condition, with each ride the crack can expand, and this can result in a spindle breakage.. He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. 20ft into my ride and the motor cut out. Overall very pleased with the bike and the motor. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. The Bosch motor produces the same 85Nm peak torque output as Shimano EP8, and it offers a similarly drag-free ride quality beyond the 25km/h cutoff due to the motor decoupling from the cranks. Approved crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers. Assistance Start Here you can tweak how quickly the motor responds within the first pedal stroke. - Lightweight and small form factor With the Spectral:ON for example, which has very short chainstays and a relatively slack seat tube angle that puts your weight further over the rear axle on steep climbs, it helped to dial down the Assistance Character (to 6/10), the Maximum Torque (to 78Nm) and the Assistance Start (to 4/5) to soften the bikes power and acceleration. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. Nothing like on an ebike. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. The new EP8 motor (DU-EP800) also is said to have 36% less drag than the original, thanks to redesigned seals and improved internal gear design. Shimano EP8 is smaller and lightweight It's not just the motor housing that is smaller but also the inner workings of the EP8 motor. Shimanos battery flexibility certainly presents a significant advantage over the likes of Bosch, which is much more limited with its battery options. Shimano tried to take the Apple approach to antennaegateyou're holding your phone wrongyou're coasting your bike wrong. We asked Shimano and e*thirteen for comment on the spindle cracking issue. Stab happy!". It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. Let us know what those are so we can demand them! Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. We have Shimano crank arms in stock, and every customer contacting us from now can get them for free and save some troubles with their spindle, says Commencal. While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. One note on range Shimanos range estimation is not reliable. You can't imagine what kind of thought must have gone behind that response? That kind of thing can destroy a company's reputation even if it's not something serious . Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . So, when the sensor senses a negative elevation gain, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the battery. When we make fun of others, its because we are not happy w ourselves. Where the EP8 motorisnt quieter than its predecessor however, is when youre not pedalling. One of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance via Shimanos E-Tube Project app. 2023 Thok TK01 R Review | A surprising package from an Italian e-MTB specialist, 2022 Canyon Spectral:ON Review | A better e-MTB in almost every way, 2023 Trek Fuel EXe Review | This brand new lightweight e-MTB is the stealthiest weve ever tested, Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay Review | Power is nothing without control, This website requires Javascript for optimum viewing purposes. I'm sure a dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag. Shimano has put its long-running Steps E8000 format to pastor and heralds in its EP8 motor unit for 2021. Great for climbing, on the descents the weight changes how I ride, not better or worse. When they start looking (and weighing closer to regular trail bikes then I'll consider. That would be awesome to do laps on. The issue, we've been told, is that the motor body is subject to cracking when the drive is employed as a stressed part of the bike's frame. It's kinda frustrating. For a mechanic, mechanical noise is a no-no by the end of the ride Id be destroyed mentally! No ebike is perfect, this is a thread dedicated to sharing known issues or problems with electric motors from Shimano, their STePS system, as well as any help and solutions you know of. Good thing with Shimano is warranty,at least here in Madrid is almost instantaneous. Here youll find three sliding scales for each of the three assist modes (thats Eco, Trail and Boost). If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: e*thirteen cranks are commonly specced on electric mountain bikes fitted with Shimano EP8 motors, by bike brands including Commencal, Marin, Orange and Orbea, among others. If youve experienced a Shimano EP8 bottom bracket spindle failure, let us know in the comments below. - Tuning options are simple and effective But it is not anywhere near the same engine in everything else. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. TSB 156 addresses a reported issue where the crank preload end cap can loosen and fall off, eventually causing the pedal cranks to become detached from the bottom-bracket spindle. Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. Plus the prices will drop as the tech becomes cheaper and can be offered at lower prices. And compared to E8000, the new EP8 motor is considerably more powerful on the trail, whilst retaining the smooth and intuitive delivery that weve always dug about Shimanos drive units. - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell Appreciate the level of detail in this article, good work. Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? If you have a problem you can reapair it very quick. IMO we're still in the pilot phase and have a lot of room for improvement. While midly annoying, it only takes a couple button presses to get back to get an 800% stabbing strength increase! Now well point out here that the Bosch Gen 4 motor exhibits a similar metallic clacking noise, since its internal gear system also employs a clutch. What settings you end up will depend on your personal riding style, and your expectations of range and power output. Stay tuned, as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon. Basically, the battery level drops from around 30% to 2% extremely quickly. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a 'NORMAL' clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 49% battery remaining. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. Maximum Torque This allows you to limit the maximum torque, with 10 levels of adjustment from 20 Nm to 85 Nm. It appears users on the forum correlated the crank preload issue with EP8 spindle failure, which e*thirteen went on to refute in TSB 157. [The] topic has been closed from Shimano[s] side but e*thirteen is still investigating with independent labs.. Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by manufacturing defects, ethirteen claims. And in terms of backup service and support, the fact that there are far more Shimano dealers than there are Specialized dealers may also be preferable for some riders. Shimano advises that only approved crank arms should be used with its DU-EP8 drive units, reads Shimanos statement. What's left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg. Any rider who owns an ebike with an EP8 motor fitted with e*thirteen cranks currently has two options. The reported cases of drive unit spindle breakages on our DU-EP800 drive units were combined with non-Shimano cranks. But yeah, different people. 1. I wish real bike reviews were this detailed. By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. Just imagine if i had bought a Shitmano Ebike. The sound is the same, the motor works but you just hear it spinning. Limiting the maximum torque is something youll notice more at low cadences in high-load applications rather than general trail riding. These combinations meet our strict and exacting quality standards. The downside for Bosch is that its display options leave a lot to be desired. Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. So this one article, about this one e-bike, says to you that ALL e-bikes lack refinement and therefore aren't worthy of you gracing them with your holy ass? In the article it is not considered that much of an issue as supposedly trackstands are less common on e-bikes, but if I'd get one (if ever) that would be just what I can imagine myself do. That's worse to, because 20kg dead weight doesn't contribute like 20kg of normal, muscle-laden body mass. Yeah but who needs all that power? Alex is also a dedicated eMTB rider, and still dabbles in racing of a sort, doing his best to top the Strava leaderboard on the steepest, gnarliest and twistiest trails the Tweed Valley has to offer just for fun, of course. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. We suspect the amount of riding required to replicate this problem far exceeds the number of kilometres an average bike tester will do on any given model. Sometimes that means a DIY fix and other times it can mean a recall, software update or part replacement by a dealer. Subscribe to Cycling Plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! You can hear the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered. Pickup is faster too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the rear tyre. Visit the high-res gallery for more images from this review. quieter(+) smaller(+) lighter(+) more power(-) battery range(=). And just read any car review of the blend between regenerative braking and hydraulic, then decide whether you want a computer deciding to regen as you roll off a drop regen braking is pretty much impossible on an ebike as it requires the use of a direct drive motor. The touch points are all up to typical Shimano standards of quality, though we would like to see improvements to the functionality of the display unit, notably having battery life shown as a percentage. Going the right direction in weight reduction. The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. Alex moved to Morzine in the French Alps at 19 to pursue a career as a bike bum and clocked up an enormous amount of riding. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. I rode the engine too, the thing is the engine is super quiet once you charge on the pedals, and you've got that annoying rattling noise as soon as you are on the freewheel and cruising down the trail Shim is working on it from what they said. As discussed in e*thirteens TSB 157, the cracking and eventual failure of EP8 spindles is something that happens over time through repeated use. An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! Mkay? Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. In comparison, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo offers a significantly more customisable and overall user-friendly experience. 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